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tv   Nancy Grace  HLN  December 30, 2009 8:00pm-9:00pm EST

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tonight, the desperate search for a 2-year-old florida girl, caylee. six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the anthony home, confirmed to be caylee. manner of death, homicide. a utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light colored hair. the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth. then triple bagging little caylee like she's trash. tonight, grandmother cindy on the hotseat, under oath.
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after telling a judge for weeks she's too emotionally fragile to testify, she gives a sworn statement, testimony showing she's anything but fragile. it's all on video. tonight, we have that videotape. >> please raise your right hand. do you swear the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but your truth? >> yes. >> you have a daughter named kay see marie anthony, is that correct? >> yes. >> and a granddaughter caylee as well? >> yes. >> i'm going to ask you questions about the time period before and leading up to your granddaughter's disappearance and we'll go through some other questions. so right now i'm going to ask some questions particularly about the household and the setup of the household, who lived there during the time
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period, let's say about march or april of last year, okay? >> explain to me the relevance of the question regarding the civil lawsuit with zenaida gonzalez, please. >> we're going to ask questions, your attorney objects. i need you to answer the questions. so if you can do your best, but if you don't understand what i've asked you -- >> i'm not understanding what you're asking for the relevance. >> ma'am -- >> i'm just asking -- >> i appreciate that, ma'am. >> we'll try to make this quick if you can answer my question. if you don't understand what i've asked you, let me know and i'll repeat it. in other words -- >> please repeat the question. >> let me tell you a couple other things. i might talk a little too fast. if you don't understand me, let me know. but if you answer my question, i'm going to assume you did understand it. is that fair? >> that's fair. >> let's go on back to about march of last year. what house did you live at?
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>> 4937 hope spring drive. >> and who lived there with you? >> casey, george and myself, and caylee marie. >> how many bedrooms was the house? >> we have four bedrooms. >> did caylee marie have her own bedroom? >> yes, she did. >> during that time period, was it your understanding, and this is in the beginning of last year, was it your understanding that your daughter casey had a job? >> yes, it was. >> where was she working, to your knowledge, at that point in time this >> to my knowledge, universal studios and hard rock cafe. >> and that was something that she told you during that time period? >> yes. >> did you ever learn from any other source during that time period that she was working there? in other words, did somebody from the hard rock cafe ever call her for work, did somebody from universal ever contact the house? >> not that i'm aware of. >> so the only source of information would have been from your daughter, is that fair to say, from casey? >> yes.
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>> and you also knew some of your daughter's friends, is my understanding? >> some of them, yes. >> amy -- >> i never met amy in march. i didn't know amy until july the 15th of 2008. >> okay. thanks for clarifying that. so of casey's friends during say the early time period of last year, of casey's friends did you ever hear from them anybody mention where in fact she worked? >> i didn't talk to casey's friends. >> so -- i apologize. do you want to go off the record? okay, let's just keep going. >> this is still not relevant. >> just answer the question. >> it's not relevant. >> so my understanding is what you're telling me is casey is the one that told you she had a
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job during that time period, is that correct? >> that's correct. i actually was with her when she met her first boss back in june of 2004. >> all right. now i'm talking about in 2005. >> i have never -- i never had a reason to believe she did not still have her job, which i did have knowledge of that she did have a job. >> and that first boss was who? >> you know, i can't remember his name right now. it's not on the tip of my tongue. >> i'm sorry, what year was that? >> 2004, i believe is when she started. the year before caylee was born. >> now, did you or your husband claim casey, your daughter, as a dependent on your taxes? >> no. >> so it's fair to say she should have paid her open taxes? >> yes. >> did you ever see any documents like a w-2? >> yes, i have seen a w-2 form. >> i'm going to ask the question, you probably going to know what i'm asking you, but because we want to make this
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clear, but let me finish my question and we'll go from there. back during the 2004 time period, are you saying you saw a w-2 come in? >> yes, i did. >> how about in 2005? >> i don't recall. >> okay, don't recall seeing it. and how about going forward from there, 2006, 2007, and then 2008? >> no. the only reason is that was her first w-2 and i helped her with her taxes. i did not need to help her do that after that year. so that's why i would not have had a reason to look at her -- >> after 2005, did you ever see her doing her taxes? >> no. >> do you know if she ever received a tax refund? >> all i've seen was h&r block card from her. >> all right. so as far as let's go back now to the period when she was taking care of caylee and there were issues about babysitters. your understanding is that she had a job that was the same job of the boss that you had met back in 2004?
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>> yes, similar. >> similar. okay, was it at the same company? >> not really, because she never worked for universal studios, she worked at universal studios. these were companies that were contracted by universal studios. >> have you subsequently come to learn about when the last time was she did in fact have a job? >> i can't remember the exact date. >> is it nar to say, though, that you've come now -- at this point in time, to find out that she did not actually hold a job at universal studios back in about a year ago or so, back in march, april of last year. >> she never worked for universal studios. >> did she have any job where she received a paycheck? >> yes. >> where was that? >> through where my son works. >> what's that? >> click and park. >> i'm sorry? >> game day, click and park. i'm not sure of the exact name. but i know she did receive a paycheck because she did help him. >> how much did she receive?
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>> i have no idea. >> what was her position? >> she just helped him with some of his work on the super bowl a year ago. >> so super bowl a year ago would have been end of january, early february. other than helping your son, lee anthony, are you aware of any other payments or source of income she would have been receiving last year? >> not -- no, not to my knowledge. >> so sit fair to say your understanding is that she did not have a source of income, certainly from universal or any of those other entities associated with universal back in 2008? >> fact. >> okay. now, your husband has testified and we've heard from him about who watched your granddaughter, and it's my understanding that she lived in your house, of course, and did you help contribute for feeding her and clothing her, all that type of stuff? >> yes, i did. >> paid medical bills, i assume? >> no, i think i only paid one medical bill for caylee and that
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was right after caylee was born. >> is it fair to say that you were involved actively in raising her? >> yes. >> and of -- my understanding is you work full time. >> yes. >> where was it that you were working back in 2008? >> genteva home care. i'm a nurse manager. >> do you have a certain shift that you work? >> i work day shift. >> is that 7:00 to 7:00? >> you know, i could go in at 7:30, i could go in at 8:00, i could be there at 7:00, just depending on what time i wanted to be there. but usually there at least by 8:30 and then until 5:00, 5:30, 6:00. >> is that a monday through friday? >> monday through friday. >> and home health nurse is what you are? >> i'm a nurse manager. >> i understand. so there's night shifts and then there's day -- >> not in my company, not for what i do. >> and your husband was also working back in 2008, is that correct? >> yes. >> what was his job, let's say
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starting from january through december? >> you know, i can't remember. george has had a couple jobs in 2008. i can't remember what he had. >> there were periods of time, though, that both of you were working, is that correct? >> yes. >> you now, at the times that george wasn't working, was he actively involved in the watching of your granddaughter? >> george was actively involved with caylee when he was working, when he wasn't working. we both were. >> let me clarify. >> i thought you were finished. i apologize. >> when he wasn't at the office or wherever he was working, and he was at home, would he be the one that was in charge of watching her and taking care of her? >> if casey wasn't there, yes. >> now, if casey wasn't working during this time period, and your husband was taking care of your granddaughter, do you know where casey would have been going if she wasn't working or do you have any information on that? >> i have no idea. >> okay.
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aside from you watching your granddaughter and george watching your granddaughter and of course, casey, of the three of you watching her, what would you say the percentage was that you think you and your husband watched her more than casey say before 2008, in the 2007 time frame? >> no, i think casey watched caylee more than any of us did. >> okay. so say 99% of the time it was you or your husband, you're saying that casey watched her more often? >> casey watched her more often. i was -- casey -- when i would come home from work, i would be there, and i would -- not necessarily watch casey -- i mean caylee, but caylee was in the same house. >> i understand. >> so unless caylee -- unless casey was gone from the house, then i didn't have to quote unquote babysit her. >> i understand that. >> and on the weekends. so if i'm working monday through
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friday 40 to 50 hours a week -- >> okay. and if your understanding is that casey doesn't have a full-time job during this time period, if she wasn't watching her and your husband wasn't watching her and you weren't watching her, did you all have any other babysitter during this time period? >> there was different people that baby sat caylee. >> would one of those people be lauren gib? >> yes. but not in 2008. >> i appreciate you clarifying. lauren gibb -- >> lauren gibbs. >> she would have baby sat her when? >> right after casey went back to work, which was three months after caylee was born. >> okay. do you know how long a time period was that lauren gibbs watched her? >> probably till about january, roughly. i can't say for sure on the dates. >> january what year would that be? >> 2006. >> all right. and do you know if she was ever compensated or paid for watching her? >> i don't believe so.
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lauren did that as a favor because she was casey's best friend. >> next, more of cindy anthony on the hotseat under oath and on video.
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as lawyers try to identify caylee's babysitters, grandmother cindy becomes combative, even laying the ground work to later point the finger at tot mom's ex-fiance jessie grund for caylee's murder. >> as far as people who did it because they were friends with either you or your husband or the family, who else would be in the category of, let's call them babysitter, who else would there be? >> i know her fiance at that time, justin watched caylee. he watched her either at his parent's home or at my home. i know his father, richard grund, and his mother, deborah watch caylee for casey. i know that christina chester watched caylee. >> okay. >> holly gagne watched caylee.
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>> let me stop you there. so we have lauren gibbs, jessie grund, who obviously knew the family and knew you, is that right? >> uh-huh. >> you have to answer out loud. >> yes. >> and richard and deborah, you knew them and they also knew the family? >> yes. >> holly gagne, you know her as well? >> yes. >> and the family knows her? >> yes. >> and christina, what was her name? >> chester. >> you know her and the family knows her as well? >> i did not meet christina chester until -- i met her briefly when casey was pregnant. i met her at a like babies "r" us and that was the only time that i met her before, i didn't know her that well. she was a schoolmate of casey's. >> somebody who knew casey and you had laid eyes on and talked to, is that right? >> i ran into her one day when we were shopping for caylee's
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things. >> it's your understanding that holly gagne, the grund family and christina chester did it because they were friends and weren't compensated. >> as far as i know. >> well, you didn't pay them? >> no, it wasn't our responsibility. >> did casey ever say she's paid any of these people to watch her child? >> we never discussed that. it wasn't an issue. >> now, all these people, again, we're talking about the time period when your grand daughter was from an infant through being a toddler, of all these people, though, they were all people that could reach out to and get ahold of, if necessary. is that fair to say? if something happened and there was something happened to you or your husband -- >> no, that's not true. i never had jessie grund's cell number. i did not know where they lived. i never went to their house. so no, that's not correct. i never had christina's phone number.
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lauren was the only one i had her phone number for and i knew where she lived. >> you knew that richard's first name and last name and deborah, jessie's first name and last name and you had met them? >> yes, i'm sorry. >> you had met them and they were people that you had -- if they walked in the room you would recognize them, is that right? >> yes, correct. >> have we covered all the people? >> no, there were other friends of casey that watched caylee. >> of the people that you know and met -- all the people you listed for are people that you know and met. >> i wouldn't say i know them. i could identify them. >> i met you and i can -- >> i probably wouldn't have been able to pick out christina again except we got close after caylee went missing. but prior to that, i wouldn't have been able to pick her out of a lineup. >> now, did you -- at some point in time, these were babysitters. anybody in this group, were they ever referred to as a nanny?
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>> no. >> it's your understanding is that a nanny is somebody that's paid for their services? >> you're assuming that's my understanding of a nanny. i real why have never thought of what a nanny is. a nanny is someone that helps watch a child. >> in your experience then, a nanny generally, and correct me -- >> jessie is the one, excuse me, that started calling zanny the nanny. casey called her the babysitter. so the nanny came from the grunds. >> i haven't gotten there yet. we are going to get there -- >> i just don't see the relevan relevance. >> i understand, ma'am. it's fair to say that the babysitters that you've listed for me are babysitters that you knew and if push came to shove you could get ahold of them somehow? >> i'm not sure at the time if i could have gotten ahold of the grunds without contacting casey. you know, there was other people.
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i saw pictures of jeffrey hopkins. the other gentleman that zenaida watched, zanny watched, her son zachary, i saw a picture of zachary and jeff. i could pick them out because i've seen pictures of them. >> when we come back, cindy anthony, under oath and it's all on video.
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in a bizarre twist, grandmother cindy anthony swears under oath she has numbers and addresses for caylee's so-called babysitter. but grand mother cindy confirms she never once made a single try at locating the alleged nanny zenida gonzalez. >> ever seen a picture of zanny? >> no, i haven't. >> i just want to clarify a couple -- >> but i have a picture in my head from prescriptions from the last 2 1/2 years. >> unlike the people that you listed to me, because you've never met zanny, i assume, you can't -- you can't tell me what she looks like from your own personal observations, is that right? >> that's correct.
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>> so this isn't somebody that if something had happened to you yourself or your husband that you had a method of reaching out and getting ahold of. >> i had phone numbers for zanny and i had addresses at different times. >> why don't you tell me the phone number. >> i don't have it. >> where it is? >> i don't have it now. >> what would it have been? >> it would have been in an address book. >> you had addresses and phone numbers of zanny and i just want to make sure zanny is the person that you were saying is watching -- >> casey always gave me a number, yes. >> and you're saying these numbers are in existence and you've written them down somewhere and they're out there to be found, is that right? >> i gave all that to the sheriff's department? >> so they would have it? >> i gave it all to them. >> that would include the addresses? >> anything i had, i gave to the sheriff's department. >> so the phone numbers, do you remember the area code of them? >> no.
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>> how about the address, for instance, the part of town where the address was? >> to my knowledge, casey told me there was like four different addresses over the course of three years. that she moved quite frequently. >> and these four -- the addresses then, and the phone numbers all came from casey? >> yes. >> did zenida or zanny, the person that you believe was watching caylee, did she in any way provide to you a phone number or address? >> no, never needed to talk to her. >> did she -- >> i never needed to talk to her. >> if the need arose that you needed to talk to her, you would have had to go to these addresses and phone numbers casey gave you? >> correct. >> did you ever dial or call or talk to this person? >> no, i have not. >> next, cindy anthony under oath on caylee's alleged babysitter, zenida gonzalez, who tot mom claims kidnapped 2-year-old caylee in broad daylight.
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grandmother cindy anthony confirms she's never met or even seen little caylee's nanny. but she says she did hear from zenida from tot mom. tot nom's ex-fiance jessie grund and caylee talked about zanny's dog, reasoning the dog proves there is a zanny the nanny. >> we have some things i'm going to ask about and i want to clarify so we're clear on a couple different things. >> have you ever seen or met that babysitter, are you able to corroborate her existence? >> you know what? i have to, because i trust my
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daughter. i've never seen her. i have never seen god but i know he's there. that's the only thing i can say. >> but you have faith? >> i have faith. >> did your daughter ever talk about her before your granddaughter disappeared? >> yes, and the police are aware of that. and this person, whether her name is zanny or whatever, she's been part of our normal conversation for the last three years prior today lee's birth. so i don't think this is somebody that's been fabricated in the last, you know, week or two, to cover up tracks that -- so, again, i don't have the strength and energy to think about this. >> let me ask that question. the statement that you made there about this is the person that's been in normal conversations about three years prior to caylee's birth, is that accurate? >> no, that was a misstatement and that was a week after my grand daughter went missing and
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that was light three days after caylee went missing and, now know what? that was a -- that was just a misstatement. >> that's fine. that statement there that this is somebody's name -- >> and probably no sleep for -- >> that statement just to be clear on the record, this is somebody's name has been in normal conversation around your house for three years prior today lee's birth, that's inaccurate? >> that's inaccurate. from about 2006 to clarify that. >> so you're sitting here as we sit here today, and, again, this is -- are you saying that her, zanny's identity was conversed around your house from when until when? >> zanny's name came up back around when jessie and casey were engaged. and that was in 2006. >> all right. so in 2006, you first heard the name zanny. did you ever hear jessie talk about zanny? >> yes. >> jessie grund talk about
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zanny? >> yes. >> what did jessie grund say? >> i can't remember. i just know the name came up while he was -- >> when i say talk about zanny, i want to be a little bit more clear about that. did jessie grund ever tell you he had met or seen zanny? >> no. >> so where the name came up it may have been in conversation but it wasn't like i just came from zanny and -- >> no. >> and zanny was watching caylee, is that correct? >> correct. >> is there any other person, besides your daughter, that has told you that they have met or seen zanny? >> no, but caylee talked about zanny's dog. >> we'll get to that. >> she's another person. >> and i appreciate that. >> if there's a dog that belongs to a zanny there must be a zanny. >> fair enough. besides your daughter and caylee saying that about the dog, is there any other adult that has said to you i have met zanny or i know who she is? >> not that i'm aware of. >> okay.
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>> this is not relevant. it's just not relevant. >> i'm just going to hit briefly on that point. you say caylee talked about the dog. what time period are we talking about? >> probably some time between march and may of 2008. >> march and may -- >> may have been before that. >> anything else besides this statement about the dog? >> she talked a about her dog. caylee loved dogs. >> so i assume there was a statement about the dog and that's the extent of it. >> uh-huh. >> as far as zanny was anybody that some adult saw, you don't have any knowledge that this zanny person who was catching caylee was seen by any adult, is that correct? >> i wouldn't know if anybody saw her. >> that's kind of what i'm getting at. >> how would i know if you saw somebody? i wouldn't know if she saw me.
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i have no idea if anybody saw her. that's the kind of question i couldn't answer. >> anybody say to you i met zanny, she's a nice girl? >> no, zanny has never came up in conversation with anybody other than casey typically. >> we're saying here on greta van sus tren, you're saying that normal conversation you're talking about is from casey and you, is that right? >> right, or my husband george. >> it's your understanding he had never seen zanny either. >> that's correct. >> as far as the phone number and how to get ahold of her or address, that would have been information that would have been given to you by casey and you say you've turned that all over? >> right. casey would give me a new phone number for zanny probably every three months because she said the girl changed her phone number, almost like she changed her address. >> did casey tell you she was paying zanny? >> i never asked her. >> what was your understanding of whether zanny was doing it for free or whether she was
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getting come spensatcompensated. >> my understanding is jeffrey hopkins was paying zanny, who was his ex-girlfriend, to watch his little boy zachary and jeffrey was compensating for both children. and then later on -- >> let me stop you there. now, is it your understanding -- >> i'm just answering your question. >> your understanding is that jeffrey hopkins was the ex-boyfriend of zanny? >> yes. >> how did you gain that understanding or that knowledge? >> because that's what casey told me. when she first met jeff, she was working for, i believe she was still working for color vision. or kodak, i don't know when they changed hands. and jeffrey was a i.t. tech at universal. and that's when i saw his picture and zachary's picture. >> all right, where is jeffrey hopkins today? >> i have no idea. >> the information that zanny
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was the ex-girlfriend or girlfriend of jeffrey hopkins came to you by jeffrey hop kins? >> no, i never met him. >> where did you get that information? >> from casey. >> the information about jeffrey hopkins being the boyfriend of zanny -- >> he just asked me a question how i got it so i answered it. >> i'll re-ask. i appreciate that. >> raise your hand when you're finished and i'll know that you're done. >> i think you'll know -- >> i thought i did, obviously. i was wrong. >> jeffrey hopkins and this relationship between him and zanny, and this being the boyfriend and also the part about him compensating zanny, that information came from casey? >> yes, it did. >> you've never spoken to jeffrey hopkins about this relationship between zanny and him? >> no. >> have you ever spoken to jeffrey hop kins? >> no, i haven't. >> so the only information that you have, and if there's more, tell me, the only information that you have about jeffrey hopkins having a girlfriend named zanny watching the kids
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came in your daughter, casey? >> correct. >> and there's no other source out there? >> correct. >> all right. so it's jury understanding based on what casey told you that jeffrey hopkins was paying for zanny to watch both children. how long a time period was that and how did you learn that, is that from casey? >> from casey. i think that was in december of 2007. >> how about after december 2007? obviously you had an understanding that she was being paid by jeffrey hopkins. did you come to an understanding as to who now was paying zanny after he was no longer paying? >> i didn't ask. it wasn't an issue. >> did you have an assumption that zanny was somebody that charges for her services? >> again, it never came up. >> when we come back, ganldz mother cindy anthony on the hotseat under oath.
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while giving sworn testimony, grand mother cindy reveals more details about the so-called nanny, zenida gonzalez. and the timeline leading up
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todto caylee's disappearance. >> did you have an assumption that zanny was somebody that charged for child care? >> by that time zanny and casey had been friends. caylee was a delightful young child, that everybody liked to watch. so you ask me a question, let me finish it. what i'm telling you is it never came up and i didn't any about it. >> okay. and just -- >> and i answered your question. >> just so i'm clear. you had an understanding in your mind that at one point in time that zanny was being compensated by jeffrey hopkins. >> that's correct. >> and that ended around the end of 2007, is that correct? >> from my understanding. >> after that, do you have an understanding in your mind as to who, if anybody, was compensating zanny for her child care services? >> no, because i was never -- i never spoke to casey with that. so, again, casey told me that she was being compensated by jeffrey. when jeffrey moved, i didn't ask who was compensating zanny.
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so i have no understanding. i do not know. again, zanny was a friend of casey's, so she could have volunteered. that did not come up. >> did casey say zanny my friend is volunteering to watch my daughter? >> the subject did not come up. >> when you're saying it could have happened -- >> i can't speculate. >> ma'am, i appreciate that. let me finish my question, if you don't mind. when you're saying that could have happened, that isn't something that you know by a fact that you learned from anybody, is that right? >> no. >> so as far as whether she was volunteering, this zanny person or being compensated from 2007 on, you really don't know? >> no, and i don't know if casey ever paid lauren or anybody else either because i never asked. >> i appreciate that. >> again, that didn't come up. i never interviewed any of her babysitters to find out if they were getting paid or not. it wasn't my position to do that. >> that wasn't my question. >> i'm trying to clarify the question you asked me
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specifically about zanny. so i'm clarifying it wasn't just zanny that i didn't have that knowledge of. i didn't have the knowledge for any of them. she asked several people to watch. i don't know if she paid them or not. i assume they didn't get paid. and casey was working then. >> casey was working -- >> i'm sorry. >> you said two things but during this time period, you have no specific knowledge if zanny was doing it for free or being paid, is that correct? >> she's answered the question over and over again. >> you can make your objection. i just want to clarify. you have no specific knowledge that zanny was doing it for free or being paid from 2007 on, is that correct? >> as i stated, i have no particular knowledge. >> okay. now, when you said casey was working after 2007, is this based on the information you told me before about her working at universal or based on some
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other fact we haven't talked about. >> casey never worked for universal studios. >> i misunderstood that before. anybody affiliated with universal studios or hard rock cafe, do you have any information that casey was working for any entity after 2007 when jeff hopkins was out of the picture going forward? >> at that point, i was under the impression that she was working. i do not have any proof that she was working. >> and you've come to learn that she was not working, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> so when you said before that casey was working then, it's your understanding that casey was not working then, is that right? >> my understanding now is that she wasn't working at those particular places. >> or anywhere snels >> i don't know that. >> so you don't have any information she was working anywhere else? >> i don't know that. i can't answer that. >> you told me before, you never talked to st ed ted to zanny on.
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did you ever talk to casey when she was with zanny? >> possibly. i don't have a specific date. that's possible. >> now -- >> i know she called me from zanny's apartments. because she told me she was there. >> which apartment was that? >> again, i would have to have a specific date and the town she lived in at that particular time. >> let's go general to make it easier. at what point in time, that she was calling from somewhere? >> zanny only lived in orange county. >> and how do you know that? >> because casey told me. >> when did casey tell you that? >> over the years that we talked about zanny. that she lived -- the places that she described, the areas of town that she described was only in orange county. >> so when she called from the apartment, did zanny ever have a house or always an apartment? >> it was always an apartment, to my knowledge, except her mom had a house, i believe was a
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house. it could have been an apartment. >> you're getting that information about her mom from? >> casey. >> so all the information you have about zanny -- ma'am, if i may. all the information you have about zanny comes from casey? >> of course, because caylee is too little to tell me about it. >> so when you're saying that she called from an apartment, that would have been casey telling you, i'm calling from zanny's and it's wherever it is? >> right. she would say i'm going to stay at zanny's tonight. >> how many times did casey stay out of the house with zanny and with caylee? >> what time frame? >> let me narrow it down. how many times was it before june 15th that casey stayed out of the house with zanny and with caylee? >> maybe on an average once or twice a month. >> and during this time period you're saying that caylee was
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able to speak and talk about where she had been or where she had gone? >> well, caylee has been speaking since she was 18 months in phrases. so -- but she's 2. and unless i specifically asked her questions, her point of reference is what's right in front of her. >> so she would never volunteer about, other than the dog as you told me, never volunteer about where she was or anything like that? >> right. >> okay. so during this time period, and we're going to go on forward here a little bit in the march time period, because we're already into 2008, march through may of 2008, it's your understanding that zanny is the babysitter for caylee, is that correct, or a nanny, babysitter, whatever you want to use? >> yes. >> and that's based on what casey had told you essentially that she's the one watching her, is that right? >> right. and that wouldn't be very often. >> how often would it be?
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>> you know, just -- most of the time casey was gone in the evening, so i would watch caylee. >> you say there were times when she would stay over at zanny's house, that would be how many times would you estimate? >> i said once or twice a month. >> so we're starting at what time period that once or twice a month she stayed over there? >> it would have had to have been she had to have gone while i was at work. if i would have been home she wouldn't have needed to take her. if she was already gone and i was at work -- >> once or two times a month? >> yes. >> and it's your understanding that the zanny -- >> most of the time casey brought caylee up to my office and dropped her office. >> okay. >> and then i took her home. >> a couple other questions here on the dog issue. what kind of dog was it? >> you know, it was a little white dog. i don't remember if it was a pomeranian mix or what it was.
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>> and when she is saying she liked playing with the dog, how did she describe the dog? >> she just called it the new puppy. i can't remember the name. it was several months ago. >> she talked about the new puppy but how did you get in your mind about zanny and the puppy? >> because i asked her about zanny and the puppy. >> so there's no other description of the new puppy? >> correct. >> what time period was this? >> i believe i told you between march and may and it could have been earlier than that. >> okay. so when she stayed out of the house during the march to may time period, if it's once or twice a month, that would have been in march or may, is that right? from march going forward to may -- >> it was all the time. >> all the time? >> once or twice a month. >> going back to when? >> probably december.
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>> december -- >> january, december. >> so you're saying once or twice a month -- >> january, 2008, december 2007. >> okay. and, again, you never picked up either your daughter or caylee at this apartment or location where that was? >> never had to. >> and never actually -- >> the need never arose. >> you never physically went there? >> correct. >> next, more sworn testimony from grandmother cindy anthony and it's all caught on video.
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lawyers for plaintiff zenida gonzalez grill grand mother cindy anthony under oath. we learn about tips in the investigation, and evidence tot mom claims is actually from the nanny's apartment. >> was there ever a time you told law enforcement about caylee talking about zanny's dog? >> i believe so. >> okay. do you know if you were asked that by law enforcement? >> i don't know if law enforcement knew to ask me about a dog. >> well -- >> oh, actually, i do remember speaking to law enforcement about it, because there was a tip that came in from texas in july. and the person fit zenida's
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description and she had the same type of dog and the little girl at the pool said her name was caylee and she fit the description of my grand daughter. so i did speak to them about it. >> and that was in response to the tip later on? >> yes, and that was probably in july or august. >> you told me a few minutes ago that caylee would talk about zanny's dog. did you ever volunteer that to law enforcement? >> you know, i don't know. >> no recollection? >> no. i volunteered a lot of stuff to law enforcement. i gave them zanny's curling iron, i gave them some movies that came from zanny's apartment that casey had brought home. you know, different items. >> we're going to get to the curling iron and movies in a second. who was it at law enforcement that you talked to about the dog? do you recall? >> it had to be someone from missing persons, and probably either john allen or yuri elic or nick savage from the fbi.
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>> let's stop and remember army agent keith callahan, killed iraq. on a fourth tour, awarded the purple heart, bronze star, army commendation medal and army achievement medal. lost his life protecting fellow soldiers. loved sports, wrestling, baseball, football, and sharing care packages from home. leaves behind grieving mom joan, widow, three sons, one daughter. keith callahan, american hero. thanks to our guests, but our biggest thank you is to you for being with us for this special nancy grace investigates. i'll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. and until then, good night, friend.
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>> finish your song. ♪ when skies are gray you'll never know dear ♪ how much i love you please don't take my sunshine away ♪
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